Herodotus is widely credited as being the first historian—he traveled across Ancient Greece and wrote down what he saw and the stories he heard.
Classical scholar and poet Peter Levi said that what made him the first serious historian was his combination of great scope and precise focus, as well as his imaginative power as a storyteller and his rationalism, his concern with truth. However, while some call Herodotus ‘The Father of History’, others say he’s actually ‘The Father of Lies’ and could’ve included more than facts in his tales.
Of course, current academic historians are more than just storytellers. Most of them have developed a rigorous approach to studying the past. But they are only as accurate as their sources.
Continue scrolling to check out the replies as well as the talks we had on the subject with Tudor historian and bestselling author Hayley Nolan and family historian, author, and digital archivist Andrew Martin .
Anytime someone says “Well, by the standards of the time, it was okay.” When talking about an atrocity or horrific practice. It usually means “By the standards of the people doing the atrocity.” For example, Slaves knew the Slave trade was evil. But when we say “People thought it was okay” we arent counting the slaves as being people. The victims of history are voiceless, even if our sensibilities have evolved over time. We try to justify things by saying ’they couldn’t have known’ and almost always ignore a large group of people who certainly did know.
Kenobi_01 , Pixabay Report
I mean, the US technically stole Hawaii from a legitimate government. But we have just normalized it as a state.
thedrakeequator , Karsten Winegeart Report
You need only to look at Ukraine. If Russia would win, people living there would forever be taught that brave Russians saved Ukraine from Nazi government and evil NATO influence.
ArtWrt147 , albovsky Report
Pretty much any indigenous population that got in the way of any colonial power. No single country has a monopoly on the violence and oppression that was done worldwide as the colonial powers expanded. ALL were guilty of it..
crockett5 , Austin Neill Report
Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, Carnegie, Astor, Mellon, Morgan, Schwab, Stanford… They were called robber barons for a reason. All those schools and music halls and community centers are all built on the backs of crushed men and named after the men who crushed them.
ForsakenPercentage53 , Mike Steele Report
There is a bunch of Chinese history that is pretty much speculation because whenever a new king would conquer places, pretty much the first move was always to burn all the records and take out the historians to establish dominance.
SMG329 , Zhu Peng Report
The Philippine-American war. Because of WWII the americans were portrayed as heroes who had the Philippines’ best interest at heart. But few people know about the genocide during the Philippine-American war that started in 1899. Almost 200,000 civilians dead, with civilians dying to disease, famine and US troops wiping out villages.
cerulean200 , Gino Report
Nobody is gonna talk about what china is doing to Hong Kong?
wanawanka , TonyNojmanSK Report
Christianity is the most popular religion on Earth and is seen as the religion of love, all because the Europeans were really good at genocide a thousand years ago.
thatguywiththeposts Report
The Vietnam War. America didn’t win but we sure as f**k told everyone we did. And glossed over the crimes against humanity.
Zonerdrone , Filip Andrejevic Report
The UK’s affect on India, and the 45 trillion dollars worth of material they stole from India.
Aromatic-Car-824 , naveedahmed Report
In the UK, it is not taught that the famine in Ireland was a genocide committed by Britain. Our population still has not recovered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Charles_Trevelyan,_1st_Baronet#Role_in_the_Irish_Famine
d3pd , Dids Report
How nobody cares about the thousands of native American children that were taken out by the Canadian government until 1998
ZunoJ , MJ Tangonan Report
I knew when I saw this thread stuff like this would come up. I’m a Japanese person, and I would never defend any of the horrific things Japan did in the past. But I’d like to defend the majority of our citizens who are sick and tired of the revisionist fascist government we currently are stuck with. I sentiment I was so sick of I left. If you know anything about Japanese politics you know that the current party doesn’t have a serious contender party and hasn’t for a while. Racist boomers rally around the “nothing bad ever happened” party, while the rest of us can’t rally around a credible threat. I was a teenager when I learnt what our country really did, and it was horrifying. I wish I could do more than just post a reddit comment, I’m sorry I don’t know what to say anymore.
toastybunbun , Satoshi Hirayama Report
Surprised to see no one mention the massacres of Caesar during the gaulic wars. He deliberately targeted certain gaulic tribes to make them cease to exist, which straight up is genocide. Almost every time I hear someone speak of the Gaulic wars I see them either side lining them to the civil war that followed it or it is a heroic struggle from both sides. The Gauls are trying to remain free while Rome is trying to expand and civilize. Almost every time I read about it the atrocities are omitted which I find to be really bad.
Thubbe42 , SHVETS production Report
Pretty much anything about the pre-Columbian Americas. I mean it’s gotten a bit better in recent years, but most people still don’t understand just how much was lost. Even today, “Native Americans” are often talked about as a singular culture of people who “lived off the land” and had no technology or cities, when in reality, there were as many cultures with as much variation between them as there are between Norway and Botswana. Europeans didn’t just commit a genocide when they came to the Americas, they committed hundreds of genocides. While the “civilized” people of western Europe were dumping their chamberpots out their windows onto the street and drinking beer because their water was too dirty, Mayans were using pressurized plumbing systems to distribute water and manage sewage. While Europeans were dying of horrible diseases from living off of contaminated meat, grain, and beer, numerous cultures of the Americas were using highly advanced agricultural practices like crop rotation, complex irrigation systems, cultivation, pest control, and many other techniques to give them rich, diverse cuisines. So many of the foods we take for granted today were carefully bred from inedible, often poisonous plants. Imagine Italian or Spanish food without tomatoes. Imagine modern American food without corn and beans. Imagine any western culture’s food without potatoes. Imagine a world without chocolate. All of those and many more were cultivated from mostly inedible plants by people in the pre-Columbian Americas. I could go on - there are truly endless examples of agriculture, engineering, urban planning, architecture, art, and science in the pre-Columbian Americas that far surpassed their European counterparts. Europe decided to just go all-in on military technology though, so as backwards as they were, they were able to brute force their way through the Americas and beat the much more civilized cultures they encountered into submission and rewrite the story to make all those hundreds of cultures sound like one big group of dumb savages.
paraworldblue Report
Nobody cares about the massacres in Africa by Belgium and King Leopold. When I read the stories it gave me absolute shivers. It is absolutely outrageous and incredible that there is a few who are aware of such atrocities. The Croatian massacres towards Serbian population during the WW2 with the help of the Nazis. The Greek massacres in the south of Albania in 1940-46.
fkaiser1990 Report
Carthaginian Civilization existed for well over 600 years. They controlled large parts of North Africa, Spain, Mediterranean Islands, and had trade networks going All over the Mediterranean and even explored the African coast. They were powerful enough to bring Rome to the brink of defeat in two massive wars. Romans won, and as a result, not a single Carthaginian primary source exists.
DaemonT5544 , Jeremy Bezanger Report
Until relatively recently, the mass rpe of German women by Soviet soldiers. They rped anyone with a vagina, including liberated prisoners, young girls and old women.
amerkanische_Frosch Report
Here’s a more recent example: America rolled into Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan on false and/or baseless claims and waged long and brutal wars simply to fulfill their own political ego, intentionally killing thousands or even millions of civilians in the process, even knowing full well that they wouldn’t succeed in the long run. But the Americans kept it all hush-hush and now it’s just like “yeah, we did that” without acknowledging how terrible it was …And then Russia did the same exact thing with Ukraine. Now Russia is seen as evil, sadistic, and huge threat to global peace. Which they definitely are. But America has plenty of blood on it’s own hands
chopchunk Report
The Kyrgyz genocide. In 1916 when Kyrgyz families of the north (tired of oppression) refused to join Russia’s army in WWI, Russian soldiers massacred around 30% of population of the northern tribes. Now they present it as an uprising, which happened because of German-Turkish spies.
sultana_of_jazz , David Stanley Report
Modern Israel. I mean, I don’t support displacing anyone, but clearly the current regime is doing anything they can to fabricate a historical narrative that doesn’t paint them as the oppressors they clearly are.
Leemour Report
Time_Card_4095 , Denny Müller Report
the Armenian genocide. countries deny it just to even keep their relationship good with turkey F**k them.
joseph_stuffz Report
Aboriginals, the stolen generation.
Mindless_Contest685 Report
Not really a scary one, but I’ve always found it interesting that the word “barbarians” is used in such a negative way. It simply means people of different language and culture. But if you’re the one writing history it gets a very negative connotation
-The-Oracle- , wikimedia.commons Report
Nanking Massacre Japan’s actions during the war were both brutal and atrocious.
lordluciferhimself , wikimedia.commons Report
The Spanish conquering the Aztecs (and Mayans). History through the eyes of the Spanish paint the Aztecs to be these horrific, dirty heathens that practiced cannibalism. They also depict the Mayans to be the same way. However, over time we have found out that although Aztecs did practice cannibalism and sacrificed their own people, they were also very clean people that practiced routine hygiene and even had a school system for their children. The Mayans had whole libraries that included untold amounts of Mathematical knowledge. They were also master astronomers that discovered things about the universe that Europeans had no clue about for at least several hundred years. But, the Spanish destroyed all of this and told the rest of the world nothing of these great things.
Locuniv , wikimedia.commons Report
How Spain always claimed to have conquered the Americas by killing and fighting millions of native Americans. They did not. Most died of sickness but they played the badass army card for quiet some decades. By today’s standards it would be embarrassing to tell about how good of a genocide job you did.
SnooComics8268 , rentonr Report
The Treaty of Versailles (or how the War to end all Wars didn’t end no war because of FRANCE and also UK) * Italy didn’t get invited, not was given the land they were promised. * The Arabs (you know those who fought alongside Lawrence) didn’t got the Independance they were promised. * Germany got a way too violent punishment (asked by France) that caused the misery of the 20’s in Germany and brought you know who to the power. I’m french, and I wasn’t taught all this in school, I had to search afterwards.
GrinkOf , wikimedia.commons Report
AlwxWrites Report
David_Fade , 42 North Report
MacArthur covering up the atrocities of Unit 731 so the US could get the results of their chemical and biological experiments on POWs and undesireables. Japan wanted it to fade away and so did the US and that is what happened. They were given immunity. No one paid for those crimes in the east. MacArthur forced all in the Pacific to sign NDAs before being released from duty. No one could talk about what happened in the Pacific. My mother’s first husband was a POW in the Pacific. When he got back he started saying what happened and the authorities picked him up and took him away and would not tell her anything. They were Catholic and she had to annul the marriage as the one thing they did tell her was he ain’t coming back any time soon.
RCragwall , wikimedia.commons Report
I think it’s harder to find examples in modern history because there are many cases where the victors control the narrative, but it’s not so easy anymore to completely silence or erase alternative interpretations. Still, two American examples spring to mind where most people (non-historians, at least) have it wrong. In the the enslavement of Africans and the genocide of Native Americans, it’s not the case that all those early Americans had a moral blind spot, but now we know better. Rather, those were contentious issues at the time, and many people opposed slavery and Native American genocide throughout America’s history. For example, there were priests who opposed slavery on moral grounds from the start. Later, wherever there wasn’t already an entrenched ruling class who relied on slavery for their wealth, Quakers, Methodists, Baptists, other sincere Christians, and others who believed in “all men are created equal” fought hard and successfully managed to ban slavery early on, e.g., in Pennsylvania. Then there was Andrew Jackson, clearly the Trump of his age, who ran on a popular platform of not honoring existing treaties with Native Americans, but instead killing and forcibly relocating them and stealing (“conquering”) their remaining lands for his voters. If it weren’t for Jackson, the U.S. would be smaller, but have less blood on its hands. And if it weren’t for the efforts of anti-slavery activists, who existed long before the civil war, it would have far more.
webbphillips Report
“Columbus Day”
Deverouxe Report
After the Paraguay war, there were no losers left to write history… I guess Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina was what was left.
Much_Committee_9355 , Dennis Jarvis Report
That there’s no ban on communist symbols like there is on nazi symbols. In eastern Europe you’ll hardly find a family that has not been touched by soviet war rimes. My great grandmother survived the gulag and had to see the symbol of her opressors every year on the 9th of May when russian minorities very publicly (and drunkenly) celebrated their victory and were upset that natives didn’t share the enthusiasm.
two_naps_a_day Report
The Bangladesh genocide caused by the fascist Pakistani army generals in 1971. It’s the reason why Pakistan and Bangladesh relations are bad. 3.000.000 bengalis got killed and 300.000 got raped.
KebabSahab Report
WW1. Germany especially are always seen as the bad guys and in western films like Wonder Woman for example, that’s especially the case. But in truth the war was far, far more complex then that and so there wasn’t a clearly defined “good vs bad” like WW2.
Pow67 , wikimedia.commons Report
Robespierre, one of the main figure of french revolution has been taken out by political opponent, they tried to delete his name from history, accused him of all the kills during the Terror (3 years where a lot of people got killed bcs of a fear of a royalty return), they even used the body of a very ugly man to make ppl believe it was him (ppl still think its him except historian) and basically now he is seing as a monster by some ppl
Agitated-Zebra-1764 , wikimedia.commons Report
In WW2, the American/British bomber command took out some 600,000 German civvies. The US Bomber command encouraged something called “area bombing” in large civilian centers with firebombs which they supplied to British Bomber command. Many of the pilots were informed that they were bombing important railways/roads/military/industrial targets, and felt “something wasn’t right” when bombing cities like Dresden. America didn’t lose a single civilian to German bombers, and Britain lost 60,000. Thats 1/10 the amount they took out in their combined bombing campaign
SkyHighTigre75 , wikimedia.commons Report
The 2003 Invasion of Iraq. The US slaughtered hundreds of thousands of civilians (and to this day it still for some reason doesn’t count as a genocide) because of a lie.
CoolDudeNike1 Report
The Soviet Union getting away with invading Poland at the same time the nazis did and for Starlin killing millions more then hitler but they needed there help so it was ignored
Jack1715 Report
“Thanksgiving”
CulturJammer Report
Germany being at fault for WW1, everyone was at fault during that period Destruction of the natives in Canada War crimes of Japan Edit: for more info to japan: look up, “rape of nanking”, “Unit 731”, “Alexandra Hospital Massacre”, “bataan death march”, “comfort women” For more info to Canada: “High arctic relocation”, “MMIW”, “Beothuk people”, “60s scoop”, “residential schools” For Germany, just scroll down the thread, someone else had already made a good answer.
Prussia_I , Somchai Kongkamsri Report
That fact that not nearly enough people acknowledge the fact that Australia lost a war to Emus
Responsible_Video592 Report
How china massacred Tibet around the same time as the vietnam war and not many people seem to know about it (in my experience). Buddhists do not believe in using violence, these people couldn’t even defend themselves. Just like how the western world delved into developing technology they developed their minds and did things that are almost miraculous. A lot of our findings in psychology also back up what some of their teachings, that they’ve known for hundreds of years. We don’t know how much information was lost because of that.
LadyHoneyNickel Report
Entire Indian tribes were wiped out with blankets that were deliberately infected with smallpox.
RifleShower Report
During WW2, the British firebombed German cities such as Hamburg (Operation Gomorrah) and Dresden with the express purpose of taking out civilians. Mass-scale firebombing is especially dangerous for civilians, as it massively depletes the oxygen in a given area, causing many people to choke to death. Operation Gomorrah alone took out 37,000 civilians and injured another 180,000 over just 8 days. These fire-bombings were war crimes, but because the UK was on the winning side, no one was ever punished for it and now its never taught or mentioned here. I even remember my grandparents coming back from Cologne and commenting that they were disappointed there wasn’t much of the old town to see, apparently unaware that that’s because the British deliberately levelled the city. The Germans definitely do not forget it though. But they didn’t win, so who cares right?
tristanjff Report
If you think back 200 years and further. Never was there a war that was won by the bad guy.
SkoulErik Report
US history. How many times have you heard the same story about George Washington then skip ahead to the Civil War in a US history class? The US ignores and leaves out the process of the westward expansion, the Indian Wars and treates the US has brokenkn. The atrocities commited and the graves of Native children in Catholic residential schools. One kid in my high school US history class thought the Native Americans were “extinct.” It breaks my heart to see the school system conveniently leave out “unimportant” details that just so happen to show when the US were the ones commiting the attrocities. Wounded Knee, Reservations, forced steralizations.
ChangellingMan Report
Disastrous_Spite_349 Report
The ‘Space race’ wasn’t ran between Americans and Soviets. It was ran between Nazi engineers captured by both sides at the end of WW2 when Germany had invested hard in research into rocket science.
Agent__Caboose Report
Successful-Ad-5380 Report
Soviet gulags. They were on the winning side, so there genocide got to be covered up.
SUSPECT_XX Report
The Philippines right now is an example of history being rewritten to ensure victory.
Stu_Thom4s Report
American war crimes in Syria. that s**t is messed up
joseph_stuffz Report
everything japan did to china,korea and asian countries during ww2 usa doing the same thing russia is doing to ukrain but to middle eastern countries but since its usa its good
MePlayAdcMeStupid Report
People in general view WW1 with less clear good guy-bad guy lines, but this leads to people thinking Imperial Germany was entirely clean of shitty acts
Armored-Potato-Chip Report
Did you ever reed an Italian history book? The ww1/2 parts are treats more like a good war for a better country but it was one of the wrost period of Italys history
Fireachi Report
The entire British Empire as a ‘good thing’ brining civilisation and commerce to the ungodly rather than a mercantile driven rolling genocide with efficient admin
Worth_Separate Report
Post WW2 history was written with a serious bias. 1. “Hitler was mad” excuse for most generals, especially Halder for the generals poor decision making (Hitler unfortunately wasn’t mad - if he was 70 million people would be alive not dead in 1945) 2. Surviving Generals led by Halder whitewashed history so they were “clean” of mass murder 3. USA went along with it to make out Soviets were weak, due to cold war. Idea was Soviets only won as “hordes” out numbered the “superior German” soldier, and as America beat the Germans, easy to beat the Red Army…. This biased history became the “standard narrative” that is now being challenged with real facts. It is dangerous as Hitler was a human being. So were the Nazi leaders to soldiers who shot civilians. They made bad decisions. We must learn from these. ANYONE of us could be seduced by similar ideologies. Just look at Russia now. Worse it makes serious debate hard, and people label extreme views as “mad” (eg Trumpists) instead of engaging with them to bring them back. I think people are scared by the fact Hitler was a normal intelligent human being who decided, ideologically, that 10s of millions must die for the “greater good”. He didn’t start out way. People prefer the mad label. But we must learn the temptation of simple solutions and hate lead to mass murder.
expatinjeju Report
William the Conqueror was the Duke William before and during. He had a deal from the King of England’s successor that William would have the throne if the King died. The King died and the successor went back one his word and took the throne. England wanted the successor anyway. So Duke William gathered his men and Conquered England. To the English he was a conqueror but to William he was taking what was promised to him.
SnooHabits2362 Report
War. You think so much about the atrocities the enemy did and not the “good” side
cheetomanthe5th Report
Everything in the history of US and UK. From another perspective, imagine if Germany had won the WW2
ThrowAwayTheBS122132 Report
World war 2. The nazis were obviously awful but nobody talks about how awful Winstin Churchill was. It was only when his statue got vandalised during the BLM protests in 2020 I learnt that he wasn’t the hero that my grandparents and history teachers had led me to believe.
poop_69420_ Report
The giant propaganda war between the american board of health and the pfizer and bayer companies in the 1950s and 1960s regarding the difference between an immunization shot and a vaccine shot, unfortunately it has been erased from history books since the 90’s but i first learned about it in middle school history(1998) and it gets harder and harder to find real information about it. Unfortunately one of the few sources that havent been suppressed by big pharma is a video by Dr.Tent about viruses and vaccines, but it has some other unrelated, and off the wall, stuff in it, so its not the best source. One of these days ill try and find a copy of my history books from middle school that had a chapter devoted to it. It was a huge lawsuit that went before the supreme court and was national news. It took place before and during the JFK administration. Before i get downvoted into oblivion, my children are vaccinated and i am not anti-vax, but it is important to learn how the vaccines and immunizations are made and pick the company that creates them using a less or non-harmful way. If anyone else reading this has more information on it, or some better sources, i would appreciate it. I have had little luck finding evidence and records on the internet, although i do remember reading news articles about it when i was a kid, and doing a test for the chapter in history class. Edit: IIRC, one of the cases reviewed during the supreme court hearing was a batch of polio vaccines that had live virus in them and infected thousands of americans. Another was related to viruses being contracted from the kidneys used to grow the vaccine, that where not the virus the vaccine was being designed for.
disorderly_ants Report
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Olympian Makes Stunning Admission After Judge’s Conspicuous Scores Ignite Cheating Accusations
